I’ve been thinking about the pastor writing a eulogy for the Lall family.
I’ve also been thinking about the NBA players interviewed last night after the game.
I have a question for the pastor. Where was God while Joshua Lall was slaughtering his family?
Where was this omnipotent, omniscient, loving, protective God people speak of and worship?
The ballplayers thank God for winning. Artists winning MMVA this weekend will thank him for their talent, for his help. People will say that it was by “God’s grace” that they escaped tornadoes and floods.
So where was God that Tuesday evening?
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June 13, 2008 at 7:08 pm
crazybengal
I hear he was taking a bath…
June 13, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Michele
Getting ready for the MMVAs?
June 13, 2008 at 8:17 pm
empy
1Jn.5:19; Isa.64:4.
June 13, 2008 at 9:29 pm
crazybengal
“For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.”
Well what the hell does that mean???
June 13, 2008 at 9:31 pm
crazybengal
“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness”
so…God is thus wicked
June 19, 2008 at 2:08 pm
occgroups
Read ‘The Shack’ by William Young…a current bestseller…yes, it is fiction but I believe that it may help answer your question: Where is God in a time like this?
I would love to hear your thoughts if you read it. My wife read the book in one sitting!
I believe God was there Michele. To impose His will in any situation is not to love….free will is a declaration of love. God’s desire is for us to choose Him…God’s desire is for us to live for Him…to love Him, to love others. Unfortunately, bad things happen because we choose to do bad things. This does not change God’s love for us. His heart breaks in our brokenness. God never lets go of you or me. But sometimes we let go of Him.
June 19, 2008 at 2:13 pm
crazybengal
God has been using the “we are all bad” thing as an excuse for far too long. it is like a game of cat and mouse and we are the mice and he is the cat. When is the game to end?
June 20, 2008 at 10:12 am
occgroups
God does not say that we are bad…it is our sin that is bad and I think we could all agree that “all have sinned”. So what does God do because of our sin? He didn’t have to do anything because He is God but because of His love for us, He offers us redemption through His Son. I don’t know about you but I came to a point where I knew that I couldn’t figure out life on my own so I accepted God’s grace. Today, I experience this amazing grace every day and like His Word says ‘it is a peace that surpasses all understanding.’ It is so easy to question God in a time like this but don’t forget that God Himself endured a horrific experience on our behalf. He bore the sin of the world and was crucified for you and me. God loves us so much that He let His own Son hang on a cross. It was the only way for us to be reconciled to a holy God who we have been separated from by our sin. God did not walk away….instead He took a step towards us. I chose to accept this crazy love and my life has never been the same since. No matter what the circumstance, God understands…it may not always make sense, but I have found Him to be worthy of my trust.
July 6, 2008 at 4:33 pm
zee
he denied God by tat time and entertained the demon inside of him. that’s why it took all over his mind. he dint wanna be beside GOD. he chose to deny him. that’s why
July 6, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Michele
And an omnipotent god couldn’t stop him to protect the children?
Interesting.
July 6, 2008 at 6:02 pm
crazybengal
God is not interested in protecting anyone – he is imaginary.
July 7, 2008 at 10:18 am
occgroups
Yes, an omnipotent God could have stopped him…..he would have to stop pretty much everything in this world if he worked that way….to interfere with free will is to interfere with the way we have been created…God is not going to do that…instead, He gives us His Word and says this is how I created life to be and it will work if you choose to live that way but I am not going to make you do anything and if you choose your path, then be ok with the consequences….unfortunately innocent people can sometimes be the victims in an imperfect world….if we chose God’s way this kind of stuff wouldn’t happen…love God, love others…it works.
July 7, 2008 at 10:19 am
occgroups
God is imaginary……you have a lot of faith my friend! Look around, the world is full of creation and uniqueness…..look inside your body and consider its complexity…look up to the galaxies…consider the sun’s position from the earth (angle, rotation, distance) and it’s perfect position to allow for life…I could go on and on….what we see is not by chance…you are not by chance…something can not come from nothing….why do we all long to be loved and to love? why do we all know deep down inside that there is something more to our lives..that we all have a destiny and purpose? why do we all know that there is a meaning to our lives? Why does your soul crave?
July 7, 2008 at 10:20 am
crazybengal
lol – why do people pray?
July 7, 2008 at 11:06 am
occgroups
good question…depends on who is praying right?
Someone that is searching for answers, they pray because their souls crave something more that this world is not giving them.
I pray because God’s word asks me too…..I pray because I am in relationship with Him…just like I communicate with others, praying is my way to communicate with God…I don’t pray to get something from God, I pray so that God can show me what I can do to love Him more and others more…I rely on Him for that.
July 7, 2008 at 11:11 am
crazybengal
so…he shows you stuff? Isn’t that interfering with your “free will”?
July 7, 2008 at 12:07 pm
occgroups
why would that interfere with my free will?…at no point, does God say we have to do anything? If he did, then I would agree with you. He simply shows me how to love Him more and love others better…whether I do it or not, is up to me. I compare my relationship with God like a parent-child relationship….our parents do their best to give us a framework for success in this life…what we do with that is up to us and it in no way changes how our parents feel about us. The same is with God…He is way bigger than me…His ways and thoughts are way bigger than me….His plans are greater than my plans…I accept that I am small and He is big….He shows me how life works best and leaves it up to me….but He still loves me even though I stumble over and over…I am thankful to walk in this grace each and every day.
July 7, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Michele
Isn’t the convoluted logic of “true believers” fascinating?
Honestly, it gives me a headache.
God gave man free will which enables man to kill children and that free will is a sign of God’s love?
No thanks.
July 7, 2008 at 12:13 pm
crazybengal
OMG!
July 7, 2008 at 12:17 pm
occgroups
true love can only come if it is chosen…to force anyone to do anything is not to love. Agree?
July 7, 2008 at 12:21 pm
occgroups
give God a chance Michele…
as you have already determined, the answer is not found in us….we screw stuff up every time!
What is wrong with the message of Jesus? Love God, Love others…
Killing each other is not found in God’s message…but like I said, true love must be chosen, it can never be forced so God is not going to make us love each other or Him….the problem is in man….the problem is not God.
July 7, 2008 at 12:23 pm
crazybengal
God made man – so he really screwed up.
July 7, 2008 at 12:30 pm
occgroups
No, we screwed up…..because of that we need grace…it all comes down to grace…awareness that we need it and the willingness to accept it…..for free.
Live in grace and extend it to others…it is a great way to live!
July 7, 2008 at 1:01 pm
crazybengal
God – blaming it all on the other guy.
July 7, 2008 at 1:19 pm
occgroups
God is not blaming anyone crazybengal…
We are the ones who have fallen ….. God is reaching out to us and offering us grace
God is not blaming us…..he is offering us redemption….a big difference!
July 7, 2008 at 1:29 pm
crazybengal
Come on. Admit it. You don’t really believe in God – deep down inside you know it is not and cannot be real. That is why God does not interfere with our lives in any way. That is why he will never reveal himself. Ever. Jesus’s magic tricks won’t work in a world with technology. People are too smart now.
July 7, 2008 at 1:50 pm
occgroups
I can admit this…..there is nothing I am more sure about than the relationship I have with Jesus is real and personal…God is not interfering with my life…you are right…He is my life….I have experienced and been witness to countless things in my life where God has revealed Himself…aside from that….when it comes to Jesus’ magic tricks I would say that it is pretty difficult to fake raising dead people to life…making the blind see and the deaf hear….it is pretty difficult to fake the eyewitness of over 500 people to his own death and resurrection….can you imagine a court case today with over 500 eyewitnesses?…case closed!…. and we know for certain that the Bible has more historical credibility than any other book on the planet….there are more biblical documents and texts than any other book…so if we accept any book as credible, the Bible should be the first.
what is it that you object about Jesus? what did he do that was so objectionable?
Have you read the gospel accounts of the life of Christ? If not, I encourage you to. See for yourself.
I agree with you that it is more difficult for people to find God in a culture that doesn’t need God ….. we have everything….we know everything…..but for some reason, life is still messed up for most people…..North America is too busy taking care of ‘me’ and filling itself up on worldly possessions that never bring happiness….people are not too smart now, they are too busy consuming themselves with themselves…..and thus our society continues to spiral downhill…we think we have it all but we are the most unhappy people in the world…contentment is only found in the source of contentment…God.
July 7, 2008 at 2:53 pm
crazybengal
North Americans are the most giving people in the world. The US and canada give millions of dollars away every year.
I do not have any objections regarding Jesus. The new testament is lovely. Jesus had great ideas. But I think that most of his tricks are the same ones that you see on evangelical TV every day. God cannot heal amputees…but he can “heal” sick, blind and deaf people. Because you can fake all three. You cannot regenerate missing limbs…you cannot fake that.
If God was really real he would show himself now…when we are smart enought to tell the difference between magic and “miracle”.
July 8, 2008 at 8:34 am
occgroups
North Americans are very generous….that is not what I was referring to. What I meant is that despite the fact that we are the ‘richest’ and most technologically advanced people in the world, we are still overwhelmed with baggage….we are lonely, we have more mental health disorders than anyone else, we are discontent and lack purpose to our lives, suicide, murder, violence, hate crimes, sky high divorce rates, thousands of kids without 2 parents in the home, drug and alcohol abuse, tons of personal financial debt….why can’t the most advanced nations in the world figure out life?
Jesus …. liar, lunatic, or the real deal? Not sure a liar would go so far to let himself be crucified…..not sure a lunatic could say the things he said and lead a movement that has changed the world….the real deal…I think so…what about the over 500 prophecies that came true in the Old Testament concerning Christ and other events….these things were written hundreds of years before they happened….not just a few things….hundreds…..mathematically impossible by today’s standards.
Pretty hard to fake restoring a dead man to life…or to fake your own crucifixion….and then to have over 500 eyewitnesses?…the people from Jesus’ day that he healed were sick and lame for years and years…you didn’t fake that kind of stuff ….as for false teachers and fake healings today….I’m with you…it happens all the time…the Bible said that it would too.
God is showing himself all over the place….but at its most basic point, everything comes down to faith….what anyone chooses to believe is rooted in faith…if you choose to believe that everything is just the result of chance then it takes faith to believe that…if you choose that we have been created by a higher power then that also takes faith…I for one, choose God over chance…I choose to believe that I don’t have all the answers but I believe in a God that does…I choose to believe that I need grace and that I serve a God who sent His Son to die for me….I choose to believe a God that says that in Him we will find life…I have experienced new life with Christ and I can’t wait to serve Him and my fellow neighbors each and every day.
thanks for sharing your thoughts…..this has been a very enjoyable conversation…I appreciate your willingness to hear my thoughts as I have appreciated hearing from you (crazybengal and Michele)…the conversation may continue but I just wanted to say that I appreciate your questions and comments.
July 8, 2008 at 9:18 am
crazybengal
I have no doubt that Jesus was crucified…but he did come back to life. He had a ringer because no one recognized the resurrected Jesus. Not even his mother.
And the old “trilemma” is a logical fallacy.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_perry/trilemma.html
July 8, 2008 at 9:19 am
crazybengal
oops – did NOT come back to life I meant. PIMF.
July 8, 2008 at 10:30 am
occgroups
doubting Thomas was convinced! …..as were over 500 others …… it’s hard to argue with Biblical prophecy and leave it to chance…..so Jesus was willing to die and let a ringer take his place?….that is some faith!
I will leave you with this…
“some people who do not believe in God are consistent and don’t believe in love either. No primary evidence. In fact, my nonscientific research has found a direct correlation between losing faith in love and losing faith in God. But for many people it is at this point where they simply live with the inconsistency. You can’t see God; you can’t prove God in the laboratory. Believing in God is a stretch, but they believe in love. But you can’t see love. You can’t prove love. The only evidence available is secondary. No primary evidence. Yet, when you love someone, you are more certain of that than of almost anything else.
Love reminds us that there is a knowing beyond reason.
Solomon once wrote that God has set eternity in the hearts of men, but that in the end we can’t seem to make any sense of it. He somehow knew deep within us is our greatest evidence for God and our greatest connection to God. Jesus said the kingdom of God is within, yet for 2000 years after him, we have kept looking outward for this kingdom rather than inside of us. I am absolutely convinced of this one thing: God has placed cravings within your soul that will drive you insane or drive you to him. Your soul longs for God; you may just not know it yet.” (Erwin Mcmanus – Soul Cravings)
with you in the journey……..
July 20, 2008 at 1:47 pm
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empy
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