This could be interesting. A Kuwaiti woman, divorced in a Sharia Court (ugh.), who is writing about the accuracy of memory and oral tradition. I’m looking forward to further installments vis a vis the Quran.
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June 4, 2008 at 4:31 pm
abuhunain
“Verily It is God who has sent down the Qur’ân and surely, God will guard it (from corruption” 15:9
Who needs memory when you have the promise
of God?
By now the veracity and the authenticity of the Qur’an and Ahadith should be resoundingly clear.
The question then is, why have you not submitted?
BTW…why the “ugh.” after “Shariah Court? What do you know about Islamic Law?
June 4, 2008 at 5:57 pm
letterstoadyingdream
Islamic law? Are you talking about the one where a woman in only half the witness that a man is? The one where a rape victim is given 200 lashes because she ” committed adultery”? That Islamic Law? I think we know more then we need to about “Islamic Law”.
I’ll take English Common Law over the rest of your legal atrocities any day
June 4, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Michele
Ah yes … the impeccable logic of true believers. “The Quran says that the Quran is the word of God therefore the Quran is the word of God because the Quran says so.”
I submit in the face of your unassailable reasoning. Just kidding. I’ll submit when pigs fly.
June 16, 2008 at 9:28 pm
AyyA
I am not divorced yet, been fighting for divorce for years in Sharea courts.
June 16, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Michele
I’m sorry that it’s taking so long!
I know of a woman who fought for years for a divorce in Egyptian court. She did finally succeed.
June 18, 2008 at 1:12 pm
abuhunain
@ Michelle:
Sure, the Qur’an says that it is the Word of God but no one has or can disprove it. Can you?
@ letterstoadyingdream:
And there are no atrocities commited under English Common Law? I don’t subscribe to “Moral High Ground” as a platform for dialogue it’s a slipper slope. I, as well as many Muslims, are dismayed at the current state of Muslims around the world. However, the beauty of teachings of Islam are clear. If you are reasonable enough to look beyond media-hype and look into Islam honestly. I think you find it hard to deny what it proposes?
@ Ayya/Michele
Ayya, I pray that you receive the justice you deserve. However, I don’t know Egyptian law to be wholey based on Shari’ah. What I know of it is that it is a ooncotion and mix of systems. Matter-of-fact I’m not aware of many Muslim countries where Shari’ah is apply in total. Therefore, there are no clear examples of Shariah in practice.
June 18, 2008 at 2:36 pm
AyyA
You can read my story here
http://frontpagemag.com/articles/Read.aspx?GUID=B88C024D-D048-4D18-8C32-F3EA2B5DC68F
June 18, 2008 at 4:41 pm
letterstoadyingdream
It’s kind of hard to “subscribe” to a moral high ground when your always looking up. I never said English common law was perfect but it is on a whole one of the most if not the most fair and best bassis of egalitarian legal structure we currently have.
Oh I have gotten a good hard look at Islam, the Qur’ân It’s self does a real good job of putting me off without the medias help.
There is nothing beautiful about a system that preaches that woman are second class citizens and that non believers are worth even less. Nor is there anything beautiful about a system that tells you it’s OK for a man in his fifties to marry a six year old girl.
Just as in science and mathematics you can’t prove a negative, although I will throw you a bone and say just because you can’t prove god does not exist does not mean he doesn’t, but it does not mean he does either. It just means you have an absence of proof for either. This is not a good argument either way. But just because a book -whose authenticity you can’t prove – claims it is the word of god does not make it truth.
June 18, 2008 at 5:07 pm
abuhunain
@ letters…
You wrote:
“There is nothing beautiful about a system that preaches that woman are second class citizens”
What is your proof for this from Islamic legal sources?
“and that non believers are worth even less”
Again, what are you referring to?
“Nor is there anything beautiful about a system that tells you it’s OK for a man in his fifties to marry a six year old girl.”
Indeed there is, if only you could put things in context.
Are you an atheist? Based off the last paragraph of your comment it seems that way though I may have misunderstood what you said.
June 18, 2008 at 5:59 pm
letterstoadyingdream
Why I am referring to the Hadith and Qur’ân and shari’a., I assume you are familiar with them are you not? Does the term Kafir or Dhimmi ring a bell?
And please tell me what “context” is it OK for a man in his fifties to marry a six year old girl? I will admit that he waited to consummate the marriage till she was nine but that is hardly a fact in someone’s favor.
June 18, 2008 at 6:07 pm
abuhunain
Sure Kaafir and Dhimmi ring a bell. What does that have to do with what you initially said? Those terms are thrown about in the media. That’s not a proof. Tell me what the terms mean and we will be well on our way to a discussion of sorts? Further, explain how the terms denigrate Kaafirs and Dhimmi’s?
Do the terms zindiq or munafiq mean anything to you? Are they demeaning terms or are they simply classifications of people?
Are we a little miffed over terminologies or is there substance to what you say beside what you see and read on the Internet?
June 18, 2008 at 6:13 pm
letterstoadyingdream
Oh sorry I forgot the last part no I am not an Atheist. I’m a Deist, I do not need a book to prove or disprove any god it is a rational and logical conclusion I have made from my own personal understanding of the world. If you can’t prove god exists without using a book telling you it does with the only proof being that this book claims to be the word of god it is not a logical conclusion. Hell I will throw you another bone and say that even a my conclusions can’t can always be verified by science or logic but I feel they are close enough, the rest is up to Faith.
I will throw you a bone and say that I think many Atheists use just as bad an argument for their disbelief as many Theists use for belief. Two sides yelling for all eternity with no real solid evidence either way (although the atheist usually have better science).
June 18, 2008 at 6:15 pm
crazybengal
maybe we should stop feeding this little troll who thinks she/he’s so smart. We all know exactly what kuffar and dhimmi, zindiq and munafiq refer to.
June 18, 2008 at 6:24 pm
letterstoadyingdream
Sorry crazybengal, I don’t mean to be a troll (or the other troll on your site). Send them to mine where I encourage it (I really don’t have a life).
June 18, 2008 at 6:30 pm
abuhunain
I’m not trolling. I am only commenting and responding. But it’s interesting that democratists are the least democratic. Your disdain for Islam is clearly bigoted so much so that you don’t even wish for Muslims to have the most basic of rights. How is it that you are truly concerned about democracy?
Feel free to comment and dialogue on my blog as well…
June 18, 2008 at 6:30 pm
crazybengal
I wasn’t referring to you Letters. I was talking about the smug little troll abupoopoo.
June 18, 2008 at 6:41 pm
letterstoadyingdream
yeah but I can’t help but fight with them, and for that I am kind of sorry.
June 18, 2008 at 6:46 pm
crazybengal
it’s okay – I know exactly what you mean…but I learned a while back, in another forum, that you cannot argue with these trolls. The most important thing is to put the truth out there. They cannot argue with the truth.
June 18, 2008 at 7:19 pm
letterstoadyingdream
“because there isn’t much to say to someone who believes the moon is made of green cheese”
-W. F. Buckley Jr.
although it was about communists.
June 18, 2008 at 7:22 pm
crazybengal
lol – that’s great!
June 18, 2008 at 7:46 pm
letterstoadyingdream
It’s that and “Gentlemen, there’s no fighting in the war room!” from Dr. Strangelove as some of the best quotes ever.
June 19, 2008 at 11:59 am
abuhunain
@ crazybengal
You call what you “put” on your blog the “truth”? It looks more tabloidish to me far from any sort of real attempt to critique, question or engage the Islamic faith. Can you even tell me what a Muslim believes besides what you grab of muck off the Internet?
Do you honestly believe that the only concern of almost 2 billion people is to institute penal code so that hands can be cut and adulterers can be stoned? If you honestly believe that, it’s sad to say the least. Can explain how Islam has grown and developed in the US over 400 years with little to no incident of “Clash of Civilizations”?
The average Muslim families I know have at least 3 children; they own homes and have careers. Do you really believe that our only concern is to wipe kaafirs off the map? If you honestly believe that the only concerns of Muslims are as monolithic as these then you really are a “crazybengal”.
Are Muslims somehow non-human? Are we completely unreasonable and unable to deal with modern society while yet we live and thrive? Is our humanity so skewed by reading the Qur’an that we can’t related to living in the “world” with the rest of the humans?
As I said, you, who are so concerned about democracy, actually allow your prejudice and bigotry to prevent the likes of a true democracy. Are Muslims 3/4 human in your estimation like Africans were considered 3/4 human? Shall we see history repeat itself on the basis of religion?
You claim truth and honesty but resort to calling me ‘abupoopoo’? C’mon, feel free to go to our blog and answer the numerous questions we’ve put out there for discussion? Open your eyes and look into the real world think rationally, consider things pragmatically.
With that said, I challenge you to bring a fresh critique or honest inquiry for Muslims. But I also challenge you to stay away from the Daniel Pipes/Dennis Prager styled questionnaire approach. What really concerns you about Muslims living next door? What concerns you about Muslim gaining political strongholds? What concerns you about Muslims engaging and being part of the society?
June 19, 2008 at 12:05 pm
crazybengal
yadda yadda yadda
September 20, 2008 at 2:33 pm
AyyA
abuhunain
Most Islamic majority states have mixed (secular and religious) constitutions, except in rare situations like Turkey. These constitutions were a copy-past of French and English constitutions of the European Renaissance era, reedited to include Islamic interference, due to the power of Islamic religious clerics, especially in Egypt, in the Othman empire prier to its demise. And accordingly; most of the judiciary systems of the Islamic Majority states is secular, except for civil cases; like marriage and divorce; they have their own judiciary systems of share’a. In Kuwait, for example, we have two courts; one belonging to Shiite sect and one to Sunni.
As for “What concerns you about Muslim gaining political strongholds?”.
Personally; I am escaping the atrocities of Sharea’a in my own country to a secular system that you are apparently enjoying while living under the humane laws of the secular West, and reminiscing about the great Islam which is just utopia in your head, sorry to be harsh, but this is how I feel about you whom don’t know what you are talking about because you did not live it.
I have witnessed what happens when Muslims gain political stronghold, and I have witnessed their craze for reproduction in my own country, multiplying, and eventually gaining full control. I have also witnessed how this gain receded my country decades back, and I don’t wish to see it happening in the West under their soft policy of “Protecting Human Rights”, and the policy of “Islamophobia” that is becoming a real block for Muslims, living in the West, to communicate rationally.
September 20, 2008 at 3:40 pm
letterstoadyingdream
I think it might be the study that showed 40% of Muslims living in the US think that sharia law should be imposed in the US. How about this the fact that in Britain these courts have now gained legitimacy over parts of Muslim society in the country at the request of many of the Muslims there. It’s only a matter of time before they want if to control even more then it does now.
Further more you still never defended your comment about the context where it is fine for a man in his fifties to marry a child. From one of your posts her several months ago.